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Comment by Carighan

Even though I know many prefer Vile Poisons, I personally give this the slight advantage.

Makes poisons proc a tad more consistently, which in turn affects Envenom damage too - can stack up those poisons faster. Thinking about it, you proc Deadly Poison 25% faster with this, so provided you can rack in the CPs (easy with Mutilate), you can use 25% more Envenoms, resulting in 25% more Envenom damage.
Compared to the 20% you get from Vile Poisons.

(Yes I know that Logic is flawed at multiple points, but just getting the basic idea of how to evaluate this vs. Vile across)

Comment by 109170

why not do both vile poisons and improved poisons its free damage across the board while im on the topic this can be done with dw specialization for more damage :D

Comment by 178373

Makes you wonder... if it'd work well in PvE combined with Deadly Brew and Infectious Poisons for added Instant Poison procs, while still racking up Deadly Poison stacks.

In PvP, I think one Shiv is all you need most of the time.

Comment by Mcdubbins

Currently in the beta - Deadly Brew does not work so i cant test that, but with Infectious Poisons and Improved Poisons, the proc rate is insane, I see more yellow numbers than I do white now, with instant on my main hand and deadly on my off hand, within 1-3 seconds the target has 5 charges of deadly already which makes chain envenoming a reality (also with vile and infectious poisons a 4-5 pt envenom will crit for 4k+ now at lvl 70)

Comment by 215604

WTB 25% back... and why the heck would they nerf it worst then in TBC, atleast give 10% chance to all poisons...

Comment by 145840

Combined with envenom chance this talent was extremely potent. It was first 25% all poisons. Then 15% all poisons and now 10% deadly and Instant. 15% would still have been acceptable by alls means, but that is something for the wow forums.

As for now, this talent has partially lost it's worth in pvp, as it no longer increases chance to apply crippling, wound or mind numbing. Only use would be to keep deadly up more frequent as a despell shield for poisons.

Comment by 94367

I've got to say that this skill is a major factor in TBC pvps. the damage from https://www.wowhead.com/cata/spell=16720 seems nothing since the poisons don't proc a lot. i always use https://www.wowhead.com/cata/spell=14117 instead for my https://www.wowhead.com/cata/item=22055 to work effectively. ofc now in expansion https://www.wowhead.com/cata/item=22055 is much better so i guess https://www.wowhead.com/cata/spell=14117 is just a waste of talent points even if it had the TBC effect. :D

Comment by tompatomp

To make instant poison deal more damage than Wound poison you need:
1: have 5 talents in improved poisons.
2: have more than 3046 ap. (since instant poison scale more from ap than wound)

So for a combat rogue in pve, wound/wound or wound/deadly is the way to go.

For a mutilate rogue with full improved poisons and over 3046 attack power, instant poison is better.

Comment by 33985

Patch 3.1.0:

Increases the chance to apply Deadly Poison to your target by 10% and the frequency of applying Instant Poison to your target by 50%.

The frequency of applying Instant Poison by 50% does not mean its a +50% increase to the proc chances.
i.e. it WON'T make Instant Poison proc 70% of the time. That would be rediculous.

It makes the proc happen 50% more often.

Instant Poisons proc chance is 20%, so

1.5 * 20% = 30%

At first glance it doesnt look any different than the old version of the talent.
But in Patch 3.1.0, Instant Poisons and Wound Poisons will proc based on the weapon speed (Currently normalized to 1.4 speed daggers).

With that in mind, here are the 3.1.0 Instant Poison proc chances WITHOUT the talent:

1.3 Speed - 18.57%
1.4 Speed - 20.00%
1.5 Speed - 21.43%
1.6 Speed - 22.86%
1.7 Speed - 24.29%
1.8 Speed - 25.71%
2.6 Speed - 37.14%
2.8 Speed - 40.00%

3.1.0 Instant Poison proc chances WITH the talent:

1.3 Speed - 27.86%
1.4 Speed - 30.00%
1.5 Speed - 32.14%
1.6 Speed - 34.29%
1.7 Speed - 36.43%
1.8 Speed - 38.57%
2.6 Speed - 55.71%
2.8 Speed - 60.00%

Just a FYI, like I said earlier the same math will apply for Wound Poisons.
So while I'm at it, here's a list for the proc chances of Wound Poison:

1.3 Speed - 46.43%
1.4 Speed - 50.00%
1.5 Speed - 53.57%
1.6 Speed - 57.14%
1.7 Speed - 60.71%
1.8 Speed - 64.29%
2.6 Speed - 92.86%
2.8 Speed - 100.00%

Expect to see Combat rogues kick ass in 3.1.0 regardless whether they have this talent or not :)

Comment by 355236

Then it means that instant poison is applied once every 4.6 seconds (

1.4 Speed - 30.00%

x10/3=about 4.6) for 300 dmg(without ap and talents).

Instead wound poison VII

2.8 Speed - 100.00%

is applied every 2.8 second with 231dmg(without ap and talents).

Istant poison= 300.1/4.6=65.24dmg/s

Wound poison=231.04/2.8=82.51dmg/s

Wound poison seems much better than istant but i dont know how much damage do each poison take from attack power: if its too different all my calcules would be unuseless and my post would be purged ç_ç but id like to know how do all poisons are involved with attack power.

Waiting for your answers.

Comment by DeathBlood

When talented correctly, it's possible for Rogues to have a 100% chance to apply Deadly Poison. This allows for more Envenom use, especially useful for PvE.

"Each strike has a 30% chance of poisoning the enemy" -Deadly Poison
"Increases the chance to apply Deadly Poison to your target by 10%" -Improved Poisons
"Following the Envenom attack you have an additional 15% chance to apply Deadly Poison " -Envenom
"increases the bonus chance to apply Deadly Poison when Envenom is used by an additional 45%". -Master Poisoner

Keep in mind, Precision increases chance to hit with poisons (not be resisted), not increasing the chance to apply poisons.

Regardless, with a 100% chance to apply Deadly Poison, this allows you to get more doses up on your target quicker, even faster with Slice and Dice. More 5-dose Envenoms means more dps. Sounds like common sense, but I've seen PvE Rogues take Turn the Tables over Master Poisoner; and that is a serious mistake, not just for missing out on the 3% crit chance utility being provided to the raid, but for the sacrifice in their own personal Envenom dps.

Comment by 258282

Gandazar is right, this talent clearly states a difference in frequency and application. i wish someone would link the EJ statistics on this

Comment by Swiftling

It may look like i waste the talent using it that way, but i take it for the Deadly Poison buff only. I would rather use Wound Poison no matter how much Attack Power i have, because of the debuff. Someone can say that 2x more damage is better than 50% lesser healing on the target, but that depends on the target itself and its teammates. Wound poison is the perfect poison if you're in doubt. Also i think that controlling the target with crippling poison will be a lot more easier because the chance to apply it will be greater.

Comment by bounchofbeaners

lol i still dont understand what the frequency of applying Instant Poison to your target by 50% means.

Comment by Aysom

In case it isn't clear, Improved Poisons adds 10% to the proc chance of your poisons, rather than multiplying the proc chance by 1.1x.

So, for instance, Instant Poison will have its proc chance increased from 20% to 30% by this talent. This benefit will be reflected in the tooltip of the poison item.

Links

Improved Poisons

Improved Poisons

Talent

Increases the chance to apply Deadly Poison to your target by 20% and the frequency of applying Instant Poison to your target by 50%.

Spell Details

Duration

n/a

School

Physical

Mechanic

n/a

Dispel type

n/a

GCD category

n/a

Cost

None

Range

0 yards (Self)

Cast time

Instant

Cooldown

n/a

GCD

0 seconds

Effect #1

Apply Aura: Modifies Proc Chance (18)
Value: 21
PVP Multiplier: 1
Affected Spells:

	Deadly Poison

Effect #2

Apply Aura: Modifies Proc Frequency (26)
Value: 51%
PVP Multiplier: 1
Affected Spells:

	Instant Poison

Flags

Is Ability
Passive spell
Cast time is hidden
Not In Spellbook Until Learned

Improved Poisons

Buff

Spell Details

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