Comments

Comment by iyanna

Best used in conjunction with 10 fast (GCD) heals to get the mana reduction buff stacked asap. Currently unknown if it will proc multiple times from spells such as chain heal, holy nova, penance, beaconed heals, protector of the innocent, etc.

Comment by Glowyrm

Let's say a standard 2 second cast spell is used and 3 Instant Casts with a 1.5 second GCD (the more spells you use under 2 seconds, the better this will be. The more Haste you have the lower your GCD and the better this will be). This is just to gauge an idea of an average use.

Use Trinket - 20s left
Instant Spell - 18.5s
Cast Spell - 110 - 16.5s
Cast Spell - 220 -14.5s
Instant Spell - 330 - 13s
Cast Spell - 440 - 11s
Cast Spell - 550 - 9s
Instant Spell - 660 - 7.5s
Cast Spell - 770 - 5.5s
Cast Spell - 880 - 3.5s
Cast Spell - 990 - 1.5s
Cast Spell - 1100

That saves 6050 mana (more depending on Haste and amount of Instant Cast spells used) or makes the trinket worth ~250 MP5 (but better than MP5 since you don't actually wait for it, you just use less mana). Over a standard ~8m fight you would save ~24,200 mana (once again, will be more the more Haste and Instants you use).

A different scenario, a "best case" scenario, where a Druid might blanket Rejuv and a Holy Priest might spam Renew so that the entire 20 seconds is used with Instant Cast spells would like like...

Use Trinket - 20s left
Instant Spell - 18.5s
Instant Spell - 110 - 17s
Instant Spell - 220 - 15.5s
Instant Spell - 330 - 14s
Instant Spell - 440 - 12.5s
Instant Spell - 550 - 11s
Instant Spell - 660 - 9.5s
Instant Spell - 770 - 8s
Instant Spell - 880 - 6.5s
Instant Spell - 990 - 5s
Instant Spell - 1100 - 3.5s
Instant Spell - 1100 - 2s
Instant Spell - 1100 - 0.5s
Instant Spell - 1100

That saves 9350 mana or makes the trinket worth ~390 MP5. Over a standard 8m fight you would save ~38,000 mana.

So in conclusion, depending on many variables like Haste and amount of Instant Casts used and length of the encounter, this trinket can net you somewhere between ~24,000 - 40,000 mana on boss encounters (probably more for some specs).

This trinket is as good to better than Heroic Fall of Mortality, which is what most hardcore raiders will have already when considering this.

Comment by Onijitsu

Holy and Nature... I'll be seeking this on both my Priest and my Shaman healers. My Shaman, moreso. I'm thinking this could be a major contender for a BiS Resto-Shaman trinket. Pair it with Darkmoon Card: Tsunami, Jar of Ancient Remedies or Tyrande's Favorite Doll, and you have a winning combination!

Comment by draiven

maybe i missed it, but where does this drop?

Comment by 777966

you only forgot that mana cost reduction only affects next 10 spells you cast after you use it as the use description says

I don't think so. At least the phrasing of the effect does not makes you think that.
"Your next 10 spells cast within 20 sec will reduce the cost of your holy and nature spells"
It does not say 'your next 10 spell casts will have a reduced mana cost', but that the next 10 spells will trigger a stack. When stacked to 10 the effect can affect (doh) your consequent casts as well, for the duration of the buff.
Question is: what is the duration of the stack?

Speculation aside, I don't like the trinket. IMO the concept of you having to spend mana to save mana is flawed.
A, if you delay using the trinket you won't get optimal effect
B, if you use your trinket when there's little need for heals you won't get optimal effect - you will save more mana by simply not casting
C, even if you use your trinket when you need medium-heavy throughput won't get you the optimal effect as your big heals will have longer cast time, resulting in less spells cast, resulting in less mana saved
(D, casting any spells that does not use mana as resource during the effect will further diminish the effect -> holy power)
Best case scenario? Maybe if you will need to spam your emergency heals (maybe mixing some instants into it) on a regular interval which aligns with the cooldown. But if you overheal, you again will end up with an inferior effect.
For this item to be attractive it should proc on heals landed rather than heals cast, so HoTs and AoE heals can get your stacks up fast and then you might be able to save a reasonable amount of mana even in a less healing-intensive period, and of course a lot more when there's a lot of casts going out.

Reduced mana cost effects should be flat and constant, like Shard of Woe.

Comment by 318206

If we're talking "best case scenario", I think you should take into consideration talents like the Priest's Rapid Renewal and a Druid's Swift Rejuvenation and consider both classes as potentially having a 1.0 GCD (on either Renew or Rejuvenation), in which case...

Use Trinket - 20s left
Instant Spell - 19.0s
Instant Spell - 110 - 18s
Instant Spell - 220 - 17s
Instant Spell - 330 - 16s
Instant Spell - 440 - 15s
Instant Spell - 550 - 14s
Instant Spell - 660 - 13s
Instant Spell - 770 - 12s
Instant Spell - 880 - 11s
Instant Spell - 990 - 10s
Instant Spell - 1100 - 9s
Instant Spell - 1100 - 8s
Instant Spell - 1100 - 7s
Instant Spell - 1100 - 6s
Instant Spell - 1100 - 5s
Instant Spell - 1100 - 4s
Instant Spell - 1100 - 3s
Instant Spell - 1100 - 2s
Instant Spell - 1100 - 1s
Instant Spell - 1100 - 0s

That saves 15950 mana or makes the trinket worth ~665 MP5. Over a standard 8m fight you would save ~64,000 mana.

...obvisouly, this only works on fights where Renew and/or Rejuvenation spam is a viable healing strategy, in 25 mans. As was mentionned, this is a "best case scenario", not a "realistic and efficient use" of this trinket, AFAIK.

N.B.: My Priest is Discipline and my Druid is Feral, so I don't use either of those talents. Feel free to correct me if I overlooked something relevant.

Edit: Actually, I figure using the Trinket won't trigger a GCD, so add another 1100 to the totals, for 17050 mana saved every 2 minutes (~710 mp5) or ~68000 mana saved over a 8m boss fight. Then again, we must consider minimal lag or user delay between spell casts, so the first figure is still probably closer to reality.

Further edit: A realistic and efficient use of this trinket, however, would be to cast Renew/Rejuvenation x10 in ~10s (works in 10 mans...), in order to get fully stacked ASAP, which would then leave 10s duration with the full "1100" buff, during which the player can cast whichever spell he pleases. /discuss

Comment by Glowyrm

Further edit: A realistic and efficient use of this trinket, however, would be to cast Renew/Rejuvenation x10 in ~10s (works in 10 mans...), in order to get fully stacked ASAP, which would then leave 10s duration with the full "1100" buff, during which the player can cast whichever spell he pleases. /discuss

Yep, as Discipline myself I was using Penance / PW:S to stack it up quickly and then continuing to use PoH + PW:S.

The spells you spam to stack it up quickly still have to be worth it though (heal someone / actually be used somewhat), otherwise we wouldn't save much mana overall.

Comment by Xenivid

Should be noted that casting penance with this active gives you three stacks. Doing this with Borrowed Time or Power Infusion (Or both) active will give you three stacks in under two seconds.

Comment by 368785

if you cast one spell you shouldn't have it is totally wasted so it is a bit tricky

perhaps it is best for resto druid which is all instants but ironically enough druids have infinite mana and often spec out of mana talents

i would be looking toward shard+heroic eye as a combo as mana should be quite stable at that point so might as well pick up the free 40k crits from the eye

Comment by 853869

This trinket have a 1 sec internal cooldown on stacking of the proc, by casting a Divine Light followed by a Holy Shock (instant spell) you should get 2 stacks but you only get 1.

This also means that it will not proc from beacon and only give you 1 stack from aoe heals.

Comment by 861175

Just got this trinket today and there are two buffs associated with it...
1. Victory
This is a buff that lasts for 20 sec triggered by using the trinket.
2. Victorious
This buff is triggered by spells cast during the duration of Victory.
It stacks up to 10 times, and each stack gives a mana cost reduction of holy/nature spells by 110.
This buff does not show a timer... but it disappears as Victory expires.

Comment by arubis

Important thing: It has no shared cooldown with other on-use trinkets. Macro'd this one with SoW and power infusion = spells with over 50% haste and greatly reduced mana cost.

Це of Дракономор

Comment by anyankah

I'm a resto druid and I've turned this trinket down a number of times... since our other healers and the shadow priest have it, i went ahead and took it... the int is nice, but the use feature is kinda stupid as i rarely need to cast that many spells in such a short period of time, and if i do, i am not going to stop to use the trinket before i do. think i might try it with my boomkin spec and see how it fares there.

Comment by 792601

I got this trinket today from Domo (Zish , RShaman from Tichondrius), and I must say this trinket is absolute junk. The on-use proc is little above useless. In order for (a healer) to gain the max effect and gain 10 stacks, he has to essentially waste mana in order to gain those stacks. So you are wasting mana to save mana - there are several 359 trinkets better.

Comment by xxxLesy

Sadly the trinket itself also has an icd of 1 second, which makes the combination of cast spells and instants even more punishing for those healers who can't just spam hots (shamans and paladins). Casting an instant right after a cast spell does NOT give a stack. So in order to optimize the benefits of this trinket, you should actually wait 1 second before hitting your instant. This means 1s icd + instant + 1,5s gcd = 2,5s to cast an instant. This means paladins will actually want to not cast wog (but will probably still want to cast holy shock due to 2set bonus). Shamans will also still want to cast riptide for 2set bonus and tidal waves.

Paladin (assuming 2s cast spells)

Use trinket 20s left
Instant spell 19s left
Cast spell - 110 17s left
Cast spell - 220 15s left
Wait 1s 14s left
Instant spell -330 12,5s left
Cast spell - 440 10,5s left
Cast spell - 550 8,5s left
Wait 1s 7,5s left
Instant spell -660 6s left
Cast spell - 770 4s left
Cast spell - 880 2s left
Cast spell - 990 0s left

This scenario saves only 4950 mana, which is a measly 206mp5.

Shaman (assuming 1,5s casts due to Tidal Waves):

Use trinket 20s left
Instant spell 19s left
Cast spell - 110 17,5s left
Cast spell - 220 16s left
Wait 1s 15s left
Instant spell -330 13,5s left
Cast spell - 440 12s left
Cast spell - 550 10,5s left
Wait 1s 9,5s left
Instant spell -660 8s left
Cast spell - 770 6,5s left
Cast spell - 880 5s left
Wait 1s 4s left
Instant spell -990 2,5s left
Cast spell - 1100 1s left

This scenario gives 6050 mana, which is 252 mp5, which is about the same as Darkmoon Card: Tsunami.

Note: the equations do not consider the benefit of higher intellect, so you will probably still want this over Darkmoon Card: Tsunami and Tyrande's Favorite Doll.

Comment by 43572

For those that do not see the advantages of this trinket for resto druids, you should know that each pulse of tranquility generates a stack. So, make a macro that uses the trinket prior to tranquility, and you get 12+ seconds of casting at the full reduction once tranquility ends.

The trinket also pairs rather well with lifebloom spamming in tree form. A macro linked to tree form reduces your lifebloom cost down to 295 mana while the T12 2-piece generates 186 mana 2-3 times per lifebloom stack.

Herbalists: while you are making that macro, slide a /cast Lifeblood between the trinket use and the spell cast for a free stack of the trinket buff and a faster traq/tree.

Comment by 388120

For 100% pure regen, Darkmoon Card: Tsunami is better for holy priest at least. With my talent bonuses and intellect level, 1spirit ~ 1MP5 Combat. Hence, as long as I don't stop casting: 80*5=400 spirit from the Card will result in ~400 MP5 static versus a activated trinket that is highly subject to casting rate/haste/latency. I'd say Jaws of Defeat is worth MAXIMUM average of 300MP5. The intellect bonus would mean a very minor throughput increase and an even more minor regen boost from shadowfiend. Darkmoon Card: Tsunami Is still one of the best viable regen trinkets for Holy Priest, save Shard of Woe.

My personal two trinkets:
Darkmoon Card: Tsunami
Fiery Quintessence

Comment by kgurnhill

Reference to the saying "Snatching Victory from the Jaws of Defeat" :)
Which, shows why this trinket gives the Victory buff :)

The meaning of that saying is that you come out victorious, even when it really looks like you are going to fail!
(Google it before downrating)

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Jaws of Defeat

Item Level 378
Binds when picked up
Unique-Equipped: Jaws of Defeat (1)

Trinket

+383 Intellect

Requires Level 85
Use: Your next 10 spells cast within 20 sec will reduce the cost of your holy and nature spells by 110, stacking up to 10 times. (900ms cooldown) (2 Min Cooldown)

Sell Price: 38 21 31

Dropped by: Majordomo Staghelm

Jaws of Defeat

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