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Comment by 6839

Ambush = (((Weapon Damage) + (Attack Power/14)*1.7)*2.5 + 290)*1.2

Comment by 18555

Agree with sensou. I am speced as Subtetly and often crit 2000-2400 with ambush on spellcasters(mages/walocks/priests) unbuffed.

And my current weapon is https://www.wowhead.com/cata/item=18840

The crits will become much higher with the new TBC daggers, so this spec sensou mentioned is indeed a nice one against spellcasters.

Comment by 56651

I have a lvl 70 human rogue and spec 16/0/45, i dont seem to lack dps after my ambush. I can ambush up to 4.2k and backstab up to 3.2k on cloth wearers. Opening a fight with 7k+ damage done in the first 2-3sec is quite amusing. If you dont believe me check arnory "Jouninrogue" I have over 1700ap and wielding gladiators daggers.

Comment by mortenmoulder

i just critted 522 with this on a level 11 shaman, i got 2x crusader = 200 strength and then he pressed X and i critted 522 on him!!

Comment by Wildhorn

Formula is:

((Weapon Damage) + (Attack Power/14)*1.7)*2.5 + 335

To this you can add

*1.2 (Opportunity)
*1.1 (Master of Subtlety)
*1.2 (Shadowstep)
*1.02 (Murder)

With S2 dagger (175 average damage), 1.5k AP and the 4 talents = 2k damage.

2k damage with a 40% + w/e you have crit chance, a 5 rogue team could gank 1 player, CloS + sprint and run away to hide, then repeat and be very affective in arena.

Comment by 36395

A great opening move to use on squishy cloth-armor targets. This is probably the best damage-dealing Rogue ability in terms of burst damage.

Comment by 85727

My ambush often crits 4k+...I have the full sub build (clothies of course, i LOVE 3 shotting locks)

Comment by faia

bug on ambush tooltip that say you must have daggers but only need dagger (only need 1 dagger in mainhand)

Comment by necos

just thought if something for lvl 58ish. using premed ambush for 4 cb and huge crit, since i have master of sub, imp amb and oppurtunity, then imp gauge, then imp evi or backstab-->imp evi. should produce some good dmg. and if they aint dead by then u'll likely have 25 energy from relentless and combopoint from reckless (since i'm going for CB evi at 64) to get a start a kidneyshot combo after this.

ppl won't have sick hp after just entering outland after all, and they win't have any resilance either :P

edit- at least i'll try it at 59 BG XD

edit 2. this the build btw https://www.wowhead.com/cata/talent=fhecoVzsMZhZE0csMhRsoo. hemo and 2 seal fate for combo generation if they ain't dead by evi

Comment by 16310

Without imp. Ambush, I have found that it doesn't do impressive damage at all. Around 700 non crit

Look at Wildhorn's post below, you (relatively) easily get ~1500 damage pre-armor mitigation and pre-crit with Ambush. If you Ambush for 700 then you're up against players with too much armor!

Comment by 158331

This is probably the best move to start with if you are soloing mobs a few lvls higher than you because this is a huge amount of damage for the a lvl 18

Comment by Rarehunter

I play a 39 twink rogue, and the only time I ever switch to a dagger (I'm a hemo sub spec rogue) to Ambush is if I see a clothie sitting down. It's fun to see the huge crit come up and eat like half your enemy's life. Especially if the clothie is a mage, since mages can blink out of stuns.

Comment by 201988

Yes, you can use Ambush with a MH Dagger and OH Sword/Mace/Fist/Dagger. With the appropriate talents, an Ambush crit can knock a mob down to about 50%. In BGs, it's even possible to pull an Ambush + Backstab and finish off a clothie right there. There have been many times where I've opened up (At level 39, for example) with Ambush doing around 850-900 crit, and a backstab for around 250 (or 525ish crit) which can easily kill a cloth or leather based class.

For endgame, however, if you're speccing Subtlety you're probably going to go for the Shadowstep builds, where you'll want to use a Sword/Mace/Fist OH and MH setup, thus having no need for talents such as Improved Ambush, Opportunity, etc.

Comment by Phurox

I really hope, that Ambush gets back in WoW again. It was pure pwnage in old days, killing with ambush. Nowadays it does too little damage...

Rogues should wear daggers! Not other weapons!

Comment by 222540

WOAH! hold on, do u see the tooltip? It says Requires a dagger in the main hand however it also says Requires Daggers... does that mean that we need 2 daggers to ambush now? PLEASE SAY NO!

Comment by 251740

Is Ambush a viable opener for rogues again, or is garrote still a better option? I've been speccing for bleeds and opening with garrote and seeing some nice damage, but it's still not lasting its full duration for arenas (with focus fire, the target drops pretty fast).
Anyone have any recorded numbers for what this is hitting for at 80 with some 143dps+ daggers?

Comment by 158969

if use sword in MH and dagger in OH this macro is pretty good
it equip ur dagger in MH and switch back after u done ambush

#showtooltip
/cast ambush
/script PickupInventoryItem(16); PickupInventoryItem(17);

Comment by 148775

PTR 3.0.8 - Build 9464

Ambush now awards 2 combo points. (Up from 1)

Comment by 73093

As an aside, ambush was the ONLY combo move capable of a critical hit (and thus affected by lethality) anyways.

Comment by Banehallow

Openers are combo moves

No. I haven't seen a guy using SS, Hemo, Mutilate or Backstab as opener yet. Maybe you did, Who knows!

Comment by Malvard

Ambush is great for ganks and we all know it. But there is a way to make it even better

You see, I noticed something today. Vanish is not on the global cooldown.
I made this macro

#showtooltip
/cast ambush
/cast vanish

Found a levlel 49 druid in Tanaris and used it on him.

It looked as if he died as i cast vanish.
It works. You ambush the target and cast vanish at the same time, virtually never even leaving stealth.

Give it a try.

Comment by Darthdavo

This Macro goes brilliantally with this skill if your a combat rogue!

All you need is a dagger, two swords.

/equipslot 16 Dagger of Pwnage
/cast Ambush
/equipslot 16 Mace of Pwnage

Change "Dagger of Pwnage" and "Mace of Pwnage" to your current weapon, But keep the 16 there! or else it wont work!

Change to if you use swords.

Source: http://www.wowwiki.com/Useful_macros/Rogue#Equip_Dagger_and_Ambush

I do not take this macro as my own, i am merely redirecting it to this web page.

Comment by Darthdavo

Comment by 223759

I'm currently lvling a rogue, with the BoA stuff, got the 1h sword and dagger...
Anyways... the sword is "Main Hand" only, wondering if some1 knew to make a macro to throw that sword to my bag, equip my dagger from offhand to mainhand, cast ambush and then equip my sword back to main hand and dagger back to off hand

Comment by 309000

How high crits can I expect to get with 3.5k raw AP and 213 dagger?

Comment by 116979

How come there aren't any posts about the damage output?

Let's say you're shadowdance-spec'd with übergear.
Furious Gladiator's Spike + 4000 AP is roughly 920 max damage.

920 x (2,75 + 907) = 3437
With all sub-talents accounted for + Shadowstep activated...
Hit : 3437 x 1,5 = 5155
Crit: 5155 x 1,5 = 7733 (on someone with 0 armor and 0 resilience)

Let's say you're meeting another rogue with 5500 armor (25% reduction) and 750 resilience (-20% critdmg)

Hit: 5155 x 0,75 = 3866
Crit: 3866 x 1,3 = 5025

Now you know why everyone's mutilate-spec.

Comment by 44002

Ok, I understand that this seems like a great opener and I think that it might be. Why would this not be a better opener though?

(From Stealth)
Sap
Garrote (does not break Sap for 3 seconds, and ignores armor)
leave attack
ambush

a macro would look something like this:

/cast Garrote
/stopattack
/cast Ambush

Comment by 425234

One of the most beautiful things that Rogues can do :) *proud Rogue*

Comment by 350778

i just love the new animation of ambush and backstab, that purple mangle thing.

Comment by 165543

a way 2 kill a pesky healer is 2 do this stealth up 2 the healer ambush vanish ambush again if he's not dead yet eviscerate 2 finish him off with 4 combo points

Comment by MarioMetroid

This ability is being changed in patch 4.0 so that it can be used with any weapon equipped (however daggers will be granted the highest coefficient).

Comment by Vip3r

It's feel weird to use ambush with any weapon, sure it's a buff to rogues and will do more damage with daggers but...

This spell is the true dagger rogue's best friend and signature since the game was released, always was and it should always be. I don't think Ambush should be used with all weapons considering that you have to sacrifice the sustained dps from swords in favor for burst damage (at least as subtlety) .

I know I might get downrate but Ambush offered me and many fellow rogues good times like back in the days in vanilla with peridition's blade. :)

Comment by 603052

Agree, Ambush should stay only with daggers. Otherwise "dagger rogue" would be almost dead. Backstab and Ambush are the only things a real dagger rogue (aka do it from behind) should use.

Comment by 610943

Who doesn't like getting one of these in the behind...

Comment by 590321

Is this a bug, or is it supposed to be 275%, because in-game it says it causes 330% to me.

Comment by Vip3r

That's because you have the Opportunity () talent which increase Ambush damage.

Comment by hippossa

its a bit pointless to say, but u can be ambushed (or "jumped") with any weapon
to get STABbed in the back though, thats a dagger specialty
swords are more thrusts through the chest than a stab

but yeah, u can definitely get 'bushed with a mace or a club... a blackjack.. crap like that

Comment by 381340

This ability is stupidly overpowered in the 10-19 and 20-29 BGs. This crits for about 600 on cloth, and with 50% increased crit chance from Improved Ambush, this crits a lot.

Considering that most casters have somewhere around 700-900 health, this is a huge chunk right off the bat.

Comment by 582957

nerfed quite a bit

Comment by gorden23

This is my entire opener.
Stealth
Premeditation
Shadowstep
Ambush (I have the glyph too just in case <3 )
5-point-evicerate
That rips about half of a mail user's hp away most of the time.
(Don't forget about certain talents I've gotten to make this opener rape)

Comment by 381082

Big change made to this ability in the new patch.

It can now be used with any melee weapon, no more dagger requierment (although dmg is buffed while wielding dagger).
It seems it can also be learned at level 8, thereby making it the first stealth-opener a rogue learns.
Ambush

Comment by Electrospell

Another silly unstable change in 4.0.1. I use to lvl in bgs just because i love PvP and have already done most of the PvE on my other characters.
But here is the deal, most people at;
lvl 10-19 got about 600hp+ and ambush hits for 600-700.
lvl 20-29 got about 1000hp+ and ambush hits for 1000-1200.
lvl 30-39 got about 1500hp+ and ambush hits for 2000-2800.

That is not even fair, the team with rogues at their flag/base spawn is almost a 100% win if they aint afk.

Comment by RAWRburgers

if any thing rogues should be buffed...

i be trollin

Comment by Adrassius

Yep, nothing like the Shadowstep, Ambush combo one-shotting you a couple of dozen times to make you leave BGs as soon as you realise the other team has four or more rogues (which they all seem to since the patch.) Wow Blizz, thanks for screwing up low-level PVP!

Comment by Rach3l

I know that, as of 4.0, ambush does increased damage when a dagger is equipped. But does the dagger have to be in your main hand? The ability itself does not specify. I would prefer to have my dagger in my offhand but still take advantage of the increased damage, if possible.

Comment by flcl92

If anyone was wondering, it's worth it to use a dagger with this ability over another type of one-handed weapon. I did all the of the math required to find it out and if anyone wants me to post the formula, I can.

I also calculated average damage before DRs with the fastest speed dagger versus the slowest speed 1h weapon, and the dagger ended up coming on top.

Comment by jackpayback

I don't know how ambush will be in Cata(released today lol), but I strongly suggest not to rely on it too heavily. As said several patches before, it simply does not do enough dmg - even with massive AP, resilience just wiggles it down.
Either rely on its double CP generation or any other opener, but don't put too much hopes up for that good ol burst dmg. As far as I can see, it's GAWN! ^^

Comment by parazyte

Please post some calculations proving daggers are better. This is what I came up with:
-Assuming 4000 AP (doesn't really matter) I take one sword and one dagger of equal DPS ignoring all other stats
-Normalisation value for swords = 2,4
-Normalisation value for daggers = 1,7

Fang of Twilight (Sword, 521.8 DPS, Speed 2,6)
Normalized sword damage = /2 + 2,4*4000/14 = 2042,214
=> Ambush = 1,9 * = 4579

Vicous Gladiator's Shanker (Dagger, 521.8 DPS, Speed 1,8)
Normalized dagger damage = /2 + 1,7*4000/14 = 1425,214
=> Ambush = 1,9 * *1,447 = 4930

In this particular case the dagger would do ~8% more damage. If you are wondering why the formula I use isn't at first glance the same as tooltip - please consider what 190*1,447 amounts too and compare with tooltip. Try my values you will get the same numbers.

If you completely factor out AP daggers are doing ~10% more damage. I e the more AP you have the more the curve smoothens out. 8000 AP => 7% more dmg, 12000 AP => 6% more dmg (non-linear ofc).

Weapon speed favors a slow MH weapon. This is because the normalised damage doesnt care about weapon speed only the min-max of the tooltip and slow weapons have higher min-max. All normalization is doing is weighting in how much AP goes into the equation.

Comment by 765384

In PvP, I actually love opening using Premeditation, Shadowstep and then Ambush. This already clears a huge chunk of your opponent's health. Then I use Hemorrhage to cause my target to bleed from Glyph of Hemorrhage. From now on you will deal 10% more damage due to this subtletly talent Sanguinary Vein. Then you should have 5 combo points and spend them on Recuperate. This will give you 12 energy a tick if you have the talent Energetic Recovery from the subtletly tree. Then quickly cast Shadow Dance, Cheap shot your target so that it can not move, run behind it, and spam Ambush til it drops. If not dead at the end of your 8 second shadow dance (yeah, it is 8 seconds, because you did buy the Glyph of Shadow Dance), you can either Eviscerate or Kidney Shot.

This kills 90% of open world PvP targets within 15 seconds. Arena matches might last slightly longer.

Have fun! :)

Edit: Energy ticks are good for being able to use more Ambushes during Shadow Dance, and 10% more damage is good for having your Ambushes each hit 10% harder ;)

Comment by druidsrus

does the dagger have to be equipped in your main hand for the damage bonus? or could you have a slower harder hitting sword in main and fast dagger in offhand? im new to rogues

Comment by 502046

just a bit confused
on wow it says ambush is 152% + 33
but on wow head it says (190 * 1.447)% plus (18 * 190 / 100 * 1.447)
what gives?

Comment by Hanz0

Interresting trick :

For those leveling in Subtlety if you SStep then ambush a mob which has a Pet like lets say Coldarra Spellbinder and the ambush kills it, which in like 90% of cases it does, the pet vanishes and you wont have to fight it ^^

Keep this in mind for faster leveling :)

Comment by durok

Can't use it with a Fishing Pole.

Comment by Thottbot

Yeah, you need to have a dagger in mainhand to use ambush

Comment by Thottbot

you can only perform ambush while ur stealthed, meaning this is typically used only once per fight. Also, the easiest way to get this off (in duels or are sure there are no other enemys nearby) is to first use sap, because u do not need to be behind the target, meaning that it is easier used then to automatically start out with ambush. Once sap is used, back up out of combat (dont worry u have the time, saps disorientation lasts approx. 30 seconds) then get behind the target, and use ambush. Also, a good opening start for later levels and against cloth/ leather wearing opponents, is to first do Sap, Ambush, gouge, thistle tea(used to restore ur energy bar to full, this is also much needed in order to execut the most deadliest combos) then use vanish, ambush once again, then just do w/e. As for backstab (from here on will now be known as BS for short) its use is for in combat. While not as damaging as ambush, BS is still of much use when used in conjunction with gouge, that disorients the target for 4 seconds. These two skills were more then likely made to be used in sequence. BS (although i havent tested yet) seems to get critical strikes more often then ambush. I also highly recomend putting for your first 8 talent point into improved sinister strike 2/2 pts, improved gouge 3/3 pts, and then improved BS 3/3 points which raises the critical strike chance when using BS. For more low leveled people (about lvls 10-20) is to sap, wayt for full energy, BS, then wayt for one tick (meaning a delay of 2 seconds because of the fact that every two seconds, the rogue regains 25 energy) then use gouge, and BS again. Overall, BS's usage is much more flexible than that of ambushes, mainly because BS can be performed any time of the fight, while ambush is the opening attack.

Comment by Thottbot

I have a lvl 19 rogue used for WSG.
When I got ambush I thought about getting a better weapon for more dmg so I got Assasin's blade. Now I crit 500+ witch means that I 1 hit warriors!

Comment by Thottbot

Ok I respec'd into subultey (sorry if i spelled wrong) just for preporation and saw that there is a talent to increase the critical chance of ambush by 45% after u put all talents into it and im lvl 33 doing in 600's when it crits its awsome, also get improved sap which gives your a 90% chance to stay in stealth mode after u use sap then u can just ambush them right after sap and if there cloth wearer's lol they dont stand a chance :)

Baloon's scare me >.<

Comment by Thottbot

If your BS/Ambush specd.

-1.70-2.00 speed dagger in mainhand. Attack Power is more useful on slow weapons. That's why 1.40 is a bad idea for mainhand.
-Your off hand can either be a really fast dagger, or a moderatly fast sword. I would recomend that getting your off-hand fast becuase it can apply your posions to do just as much damage. If you want a sword in off hand make sure it's 2.20 speed or faster becuase otherwise it's useless.

If your asasination specd.

-Get swords. Slow are better for AP, but don't go too slow becuase then posions wont apply too often. Otherwise, I don't know that much about asa. rogues. :)

Comment by Thottbot

Ambush is pretty cheap, usually get the mobs my level half their health with crit improved ambush.

Comment by Thottbot

I have a lvl 50 UD rogue, and right now I have mace speced him. I use a really slow mace in main hand beacause your sinister strike depends on how high dmg per swing you do. In off-hand you should always have the fastest weapon beacause then your poisin will apply more often. I am thinking of respeccing and become a regular backstabber but since I have respecced once it costs 10g so I have 1 questions:
Is it worth it? or should I keep my stun chance?

Comment by Thottbot

Is the 250% from damage from ambush based off of just your main hand or both your hands? Thanks in advance!

Comment by Thottbot

lvl 19 - alot of agi - some str - assa talents - crit this attack - your enemy is that by your 700 +- crit

Comment by Thottbot

I can't decide of my rogue will use a dagger or another weapon...can someone make me a list of avantage/disavantage of having a dagger/other ?

Comment by Thottbot

hit mara and get Satyr's Lash that drops off of Vyletongue. sub specced ambush crits ive topped 1300 at 45! didnt noone stand a chance......

Comment by Thottbot

lvl 19 twink(almost)ambush:
sentinel blade (wsg reward) : 420
no enchant on it!

Comment by Thottbot

I crit for 512 on a @#$%y warlock and one shotted him plus im not a twink

Comment by Thottbot

i have 1 shotted countless casters in wsg, but they werent twinks...

my highest crit is about 550

making a video soon.

Comment by Thottbot

Ye i like ambush.... Dont think of anything else..

But in pvp shouldent it be better to come in stealth cheapshot,Bs(=back stabx3 Than coming up and doing ambush?

Just what im thinking, I right now got an lvl 40 rogue coming up i use rfd sword and sm quest reward dagger you all know em :) sword mainhand and dagger offhand ye.

Just today i respcee'd to Combat before i was assosination and used dagger main hand sword offhand was doing ok my points where used in bs.
I hade maybe 50+% crit with Bs :) done about 500 with it at lvl 40 Bs then.
With ambush i did maybe 700 if i poped coldblod.
So my question is I wanna lvl and have fun doing some loads of pvping...
Should i stick to combat Or should i specc subtely alredy now was thinking of waiting to 50 with that for shadowstep or should i go assosintation again? Please help =D

Comment by Thottbot

hahahahahh dude earn money rofl just but duel wield its not that expensive

Comment by Thottbot

This is so friggin overpowered for 19 twinks its a great thing or if ur twinking one urself a bad thing that shadowfang is a sword and main hand. this one shot just about evry1 and this going to show how bad i suck, a 19 twink beat me when i was a friggin lvl 32 pally!><

Comment by Thottbot

m8 i think ur pally has serious damage and healing problems. i think he needs some therapy. You never know there might be something bad going on at home like his warlock mum might me putting corruption on him before he goes to sleep.

Comment by Thottbot

i got a 520 crit on a UD preist he was lvl14
and im 19 :D

Comment by Thottbot

any crit records? I hit a lock with the full set of Frozen Shadoweave and a few other epics, for 3374 (this was cos he ninjaed my skettis prisoner escort).

Have heard of people with crits over 4K.

Comment by Thottbot

12k ye right :S on what Curator in AB? lol

Comment by Thottbot

49 Human Rogue Here with all Blue Gear (except trinkets) and Sentinel's Blade Mainhand (Firey) and Shadowblade Offhand (Icey) Ambush averages 700-1000 damage without a critical hit. If i Crit it goes as high as 1800.

Comment by Thottbot

Text says 300% in game though O.o, then again i got +20% from talent, so 280 O.o

Comment by Thottbot

my rogue is almosst all sub but i have some assas talents but personally i think suis best for pve and all pvp exept for AV then thats combat. for instance specing ehhh thats depending on what u like to do if all u do is dps and dont use stealth very often i would say combat/assas. but sub for the ability to one hit. and also for the wepon choice hmmm i personally like daggers but sword are good to but not for sub i personnaly dont like maces so idk. a sub dagger rogue with a dagger like gladiators daggers or shard of azzinoth is in my opionin is the best.

Comment by Allakhazam

It depends on what rank of Ambush I believe. The higher the rank the more percent damage it does.

Comment by Allakhazam

It does 300% weapon damage, not 250% as stated here.

Links

Ambush

Ambush	Level 85

60 Energy	Melee Range

Instant

Ambush the target, causing 90% weapon damage plus 307 to the target [(90 * 1.447)% plus (307 * 1.447) if a dagger is equipped]. Must be stealthed and behind the target. Awards 2 combo points.

Spell Details

Duration

n/a

School

Physical

Mechanic

n/a

Dispel type

n/a

GCD category

Normal

Cost

60 Energy

Range

5 yards (Combat)

Cast time

Instant

Cooldown

n/a

GCD

1 second

Forms

Stealth

Effect #1

Normalized Weapon Damage
Value: 29
PVP Multiplier: 1

Effect #2

Weapon Damage - %
Value: 91
PVP Multiplier: 1

Effect #3

(Unknown Effect #328)
Value: 3
PVP Multiplier: 1

Flags

Is Ability
Cannot be used while shapeshifted
Must be in stealth
Do Not Sheath
Cannot be dodged, parried or blocked
Initiates Combat (Enabled Auto-Attack)
Discount Power On Miss
Initiate Combat Post-Cast (Enables Auto-Attack)
Requires main hand weapon

Ambush

Buff

Spell Details

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