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Comment by 6780

Use against bleed immune or to finish off an enemy that won't survive for 3+ticks of rip. Damage pales compared to rip.

Comment by 38374

Remember that this can crit and rip cannot, so if you are looking for PvP burst damage, this is your baby.

Keep in mind that this skill drains ALL your remaining energy. So if you have an OoC proc up I wouldn't recommend using this ability unless it will kill the Mob/player you're attacking.

Otherwise the proc will be wasted as you'll have to wait for your energy to refill again.

Comment by Zappy3491

I cannot wait to get this skill in 2 levels, so tired of rip. This is the druid equivilant to eviscerate

Comment by 38374

Yes you will get the base cost of FB for free and 100% energy to damge conversion. But the real beauty of OoC is that it lets you use two skills for the price of one, because one will be free.

But if you use it on FB all of you energy will be drained so you sacrifice the ability to use a skill right after...will you get a slightly larger FB?

Of course.

Will it make up for missing out on a free shred or mangle?

Not even close.

Comment by 57691

With 100 Energy damage would be (raw)
(4.1 X 65 = 266.5)
1 point: 525.5 - 558.5 dmg
2 point: 694.5 - 727.5 dmg
3 point: 863.5 - 893.5 dmg
4 point: 1032.5 - 1065.5 dmg
5 point: 1201.5 - 1234.5 dmg
And attack power is extra dmg, right? what percent of attack power is added as dmg?

Comment by 97249

64 Druid...

I saw a 70 pally getting ambushed by 2 70 Warlocks, so I healed him up, he bubbled to get close, h e was prot so he didn't go down easy. In the meantime, 1200 mangle, 1200 mangle, 1200 mangle (all 3 crits) Then my ferocious bite crit 1 of the locks for 3148. Same exact scenario for the second lock, 3 mangle crits, ferocious bite for 3210.

Nerf? :D

Comment by Corbon

If you're fighting equal level non elite mobs and your Atp is decent, you'll never see Rip's full potential, since the mob usually bites the dust before your 5 CP Rip has ticked out. After all, Bite is a finishing move and after using it your target should be dead or at least at very low health.

Comment by phalk

Whyy don't they remove the energy-damage conversion, god!

Comment by 1363

This ability would be a lot more useful if it didn't have the huge drawback of sucking away all your energy. It would be nice if that piece was removed, but, say, extra damage was added depending on the number of bleeds on the target. (To make it different than eviscerate, which I am sure was the goal around making it a pseudo-execute) Anything, really, or just removing the energy-drain. The damage gained is really never worth the energy cost... I use this ability about as much as tiger's fury. (Though, heh, given the buff TF is getting in WotlK, I'm sure I'll be using that a lot more.)

Comment by 98874

In WotLK The Energy:Damage conversion scales. At lvl 80, it does(at 5 points) 1570-1710 damage plus 24% of attack power, plus 9.4 and 0.24% of your AP per every 1 energy converted.

So, with 100 Energy, 2470-2610 damage plus 49% of your attack power. A nice little bone thrown at those who accidentally use too much energy on this baby.

That's Pre-Talents.
Combined with its additional 50% chance to crit against targets that have a bleed effect on them, and its potential 15% damage increase if you put points into Feral Aggression, this could be a nice finisher. No, it won't compare to Rip, but that frost mage kiting you in cat form with 5 CPs on him is about to get a nasty surprise when you pop Feral Charge(Cat) and a nice fat Bite.

Actually, if a mage is kiting you, you'd prolly rather use Maim, but you get the point.

Comment by Demonsummor

I personal like this finishing move in Hc's then it is the last target or on a boss, and they only got a few % left and you got a few CP's left. Cause using Rip will not be that effectiv, due to the few secs the target have back.

Comment by 169612

i tryed getting all buffs , Berserk, Trinkets broc , hyjal ring , Shattred sun necklace , totems , flask , Hellfire 5 % damage buff , BM hunter 3 % damage buff and food on a warrior with no gear Berserk stance , death wish , reckls , 5 points and full energy , did 13k crit

Comment by 19404

If you use this with a clearcasting proc how does it affect the damage output?

Comment by 219150

(9.4I'm curious how Berserk might combine with this talent. Imagine that you have 100 energy, have just popped Berserk, and are fortunate enough to have an Omen of Clarity proc. Would Berserk effectively double the energy applied for the lump energy dump? For this initial calculation, I will ignore the talents that modify this attack. I'm not sure of correct epic AP values at level 80, but lets conservatively assume 6000 AP and an active savage roar to make the total AP 8400.

If Berserk does stack with Ferocious Bite, a Level 80's 5-point FB cast on OoC after Berserk will hit an armorless opponent for:
(1570 to 1710)+(9.4*200) +(8400*200/410) = (1570 to 1710)+1880+4098 = 7548 to 7688 (non-critical)
That is nothing to laugh at, and lets hope Blizzard left that backdoor in there for us. Now considering some of the additive effects from talents.
Multiply by 1.15 for Feral Aggression, add 131 damage for Tiger's Fury, and multiply by 1.1 for Naturalist. That makes the non-critical damage range 9692 to 9869. That is insane, and don't forget that almost every one of these attacks will crit. Talents alone will give a 65% crit chance on bleeding targets (6% Sharpened Claws, 5% Leader of the Pack, 4% Master Shapeshifter, 50% Rend and Tear) and we can assume absolute 20% minimum crit chance from gear.

Suddenly we are looking at optimally timed crits of 20353 to 20725 about 85% of the time.

If Blizzard wasn't very careful to omit Berserk's effect on FB, a druid with the right talents can hit 5 combo points and if OoC procs, then Tiger's Fury (which will add 60 energy), Berserk...and go to town. So long as the bleed doesn't come off while you wait, a druid's expected damage from FB will be 0.15*(9692+9869)/2 + 0.85*(20353+20725)/2 = 1467 + 17458 = 18925.

In other words, if Berserk does stack with the full FB effect and you get a well-timed 5-combo point OoC proc, waiting on Ferocious Bite >>> Rip. PVP Optimal.

By the way, even without an OoC proc, FB would only cost 18 energy under the effects of Berserk, so you would probably lose ~25% of that expected damage.

PS - I'm not sure whether TF is applied before or after Naturalist, but I assumed before for these calculations. If you have any corrections to these numbers, feel free to throw them in. I'm not pretending that my numbers or logic are near perfect.

Comment by 219150

Comment by ADneo

this ability now better than rip when Specced Feral Agression

my lvl 70 FB with lvl 70 S3-4 mixed gear with 3900AP does between 3200-4200, wthout energy bonus, with extra 75 energy it does 4000-5600, depending on armor, with berserker up i was able to crit for 6300 (with full enegy bonus) on a lvl 70 non elite noncaster mob.

the fact is that i cant have Berserker and OoC same time atm due to talent points limit i cannot test how much it will do at 70 with 100 energy

and while rip does static 3700dmg, no matter what armor,

i really wish i had 4 pieces T6 now, could have seen 8000 crits
its well worth gettin Feral Agression now.

to sum: im doing 45k dmg just mangling 4CP+1 Rake for blleed > FB follow by Tigers fury to regain enrgy in 15 sec while berserker up at lvl 70 with 1S4 4/5 S3 3900AP, 44% crit and another 50% crom Rend and Tear on FB

Comment by 236141

Gonna leave this one to the people that know the numbers a bit better than I do. I was having a talk with a guildie about DPS and I was trying to tell him Rip is gonna be better DPS than Bites. We were getting some pretty beefy Bites and it seemed to be comparable, is this true?

Comment by TheFunk

Your post is well thought out and well written, and while I haven't checked your math, you certainly seem to have done your homework. The problem, as usual, is in the wording. Berserk doesn't double your energy, it halves energy costs of abilities. The energy cost of ferocious bite is 35 energy, meaning if you pop it with berserk up, the ability will cost 17-18 energy. The effect of the ability, the part that empties your energy bar and converts it into damage would be unchanged. Think about it a second and you'll see what I mean. The cost is 35, the rest of the energy that disappears isn't the cost, it's part of the effect of the ability, which in essence is a secondary cost. Berserk will reduce the primary cost, but not the secondary effect.

What's more, if you have a OoC proc, the cost of FB will be 0, with or without berserk. The issue, is that with berserk running, the secondary cost of FB is now doubled because you get twice the effect out of each point of energy that you're sacrificing.

Finally, for raid DPS, using this move could prove to gimp your SR and DoT rotations by not only sucking up all those combo points you have on a target, but leave you with no energy for which to replenish them. Usually I have to pop TF just to keep them all rolling smoothly (if I get a little shred happy or run into a streak of non-crits), which means there's a very small window of opportunity to use this move and not gimp your dps cycle. Don't even get me started on using it with berserk up either...it just doesn't work. Sure, my dps cycle may just have been refreshed and now this pesky raid boss has 5 combo points and berserk still has 8 seconds left and I still have 70 energy...I could pop this, and probably crit for around 10k and still be able to keep my dps cycle up. However, after that I'll just be sitting there auto attacking waiting for either an OoC proc or the energy to use a move. Now, if I instead choose to just keep spamming shred, I have 5 GCDs for which I can spam shred, a move with will crit roughly half the time, and for roughly 6k dmg. Now let's say I shred 5 times in that window, and it crits twice...right there I will have surpassed the dmg I would have done with FB, and that's not counting the other 3 shreds which are each doing impressive dmg on their own.

FB makes for some fun, big numbers, but I still don't like the move. Even in PvP...I find myself hitting maim if it's up and finishing with shred spams. I see FB as a desperation move in a life and death battle when all is not going well...like say, against a rogue who's got 5k health left who just dodged all the CC you needed to sit him down so you could shred him to death, and the rest of your defensive CDs are blown. Your own health dwindling, what more can you do than mash that FB hotkey and hope for the best? This is of course assuming you have 5 CPs and a bleed on the target :P

Comment by minihai

3.0.9 Patch Note:

Ferocious Bite: This ability now only uses up to 30 energy in addition to its base cost.

Comment by Bliksem

Not sure if you're for or against the change Abrin. You say that it nerfs PvP burst (which is obviously the intention) and will also be easier to use in a PvE rotation.

If there wasn't any extra energy used, it would be eviscerate. Anyway, if you don't want it to consume any extra energy, just cast it as soon as you can before your energy caps out? Job done.

Anyway, I got crit for 10396 with FB, having over 500 resilience. That's a ridiculous amount, and the nerf was needed.

Comment by Abrin

I am both for and against the change. With regards to PvP, the nerf to FBs burst was needed. From a PvE standpoint removing the extra energy use ENTIRELY would make it usable in a PvE rotation(basically Eviscerate). Even on a good PC, with good reflexes, and spamming FB it will still eat up extra energy(due to lag, GCDs, reflex time) which lowers the Damage per Energy.

This 3.0.9 change removed the burst aspect without addressing the PvE concern of a lot of feral druids.

Comment by TheFunk

Anyway, I got crit for 10396 with FB, having over 500 resilience. That's a ridiculous amount, and the nerf was needed.

I haven't checked to see how things are now, but before the change my FBs crit for that much. The thing is, I would only use FB if I had 5CPs up, TF ready, and had <40 energy, which means the "pvp burst" nerf is a nerf in name only, since most ferals never used FB with a bunch of energy ready to go.

I have to side with Abrin...this change was just for looks. 95% of the play mechanics of 95% of all the ferals in the world won't even notice it. In fact, I've come to call this chance a "berf," since it's a buff in that it helps protect against an accidental FB destroying your energy pool, but in theory, it does result in lower dmg numbers...assuming you were playing like a total n00b. I don't know anyone who would FB at 5CPs with 100 energy when they could have maimed and tossed in 2 shreds, which would have resulted in about the same total dmg, only leaving you with at least 2CPs and a stun on your target.

For PvE, FB is still mostly worthless.

Conclusion, this change did nothing except give the players hope that one day they'll remove the stupid energy sink portion in this ability, thereby making it useful.

EDIT:
I forgot to touch on how little 500 resil is in the current system. At lvl 70, the resil cap was around 400 or so. At 80, the resil cap is 1200, which means 500 res doesn't go nearly as far as it would at 70; it's about on par with having 200 or so resilience in TBC, and we all know how well that would work.

Comment by Eximius

So a kinda Eviscerate + Execute.

Good and bad points which I guess is part of its class uniqueness?

Comment by 277893

Pre patch I had a druid crit me for 16k with it on my 25man geared Paladin tank.. It did kind of need a nerf.

Comment by kgurnhill

I know people are saying Rip is better in PvE than Ferocious bite... BUT heres my input
When im solo playing i usually get mobs to about 25% hp (lower usually) when ive got 5 combo points on and ferocious bite (even though part of damage is absorbed by armor) almost always finishes the rest of it off!...

This ability is alot better than most people think really, benefits from Tiger's Fury too! :)
Faerie Fire (Feral) + 5 Combo Points + Tiger's Fury = Pew Pew! :)

Comment by 343107

I think this is really core to most any debate on an instant ability like this vs. a DoT like rip in PvE... It's all very situational. Against trash in instances or random mobs in questing, you can't look at just the overall damage of rip and say it's better -- like others have said, if you've built up 3-5 combo points and the mob has less than 1/3 of his health left, that fight's not gonna last the full 12s of rip's effect. FB will easily outdamage rip in that scenario, and can crit as well.

Boss fights last significantly longer than those scenarios, and given that rip isn't effected by armor and gains bonuses to its bleed effect from stuff like mangle, there's no contest at all for damage -- you use rip over FB without hesitation.

Comment by Nordri

This ability according to cataclysm tooltip will not be a waste of energy if you are above 35 energy like it is now as it will do up to 100% more damage for up to 35 more energy, meaning that it will have exactly same damage per energy output if you use it at 35 or 70 or anything in between, which is a very nice change.

Comment by Glandur

NOM!

Comment by Benegesserit

This tooltip is absolutely hideous. Blizzard said they wanted to do away with mathy stuff like ArP but mathy stuff like this is still around...

Comment by 726794

When could you learn ferocious bite before cataclysm?

Comment by 688448

I've noticed (at LEAST between levels 17-22), that the tooltip says 20 energy, but still uses the 35 energy (plus up to the additional 35) when used. Which makes it kind of annoying, since when you have 20 energy, it shows the ability as usable when in fact it's not. Is this the same problem with all levels? Or is there only a select few that are having this problem right now?

Comment by Pebber

Patch 4.2 PTR notes now include:

Ferocious Bite damage has been increased by 15%. In addition, its base cost has been reduced to 25 energy and it can use up to 25 energy, for up to a 100% damage increase.

A huge boost to this ability. Most likely to make it actually worthwhile in PVE on targets above 25%. Currently Shred is superior.

Comment by cparle87

If you have an Omen of Clarity proc up and twenty-five energy, will your Ferocious Bite be as strong as no Omen of Clarity and fifty energy? I've tried to find out just from observation but Ferocious Bite's damage range is so wide I can't tell.

Comment by Felyae

Currently the tooltip of this ability is wrong: The energy cost is not 25 + (up to) 35 for +100% dmg, but 25+25 energy.

This can be seen ingame as well as in patch 4.2 notes:
"Ferocious Bite damage has been increased by 15%. In addition, its base cost has been reduced to 25 energy and it can use up to 25 energy, for up to a 100% damage increase."
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/patch-notes/4-2-0

The +35 energy in the tooltip were probably just forgotten since the ability did cost that much before.

Comment by Thottbot

it kinda like an eviscerate mixed with execute,and btw

FIRST POST OMFG

Comment by Thottbot

"Damage is increased by your Attack Power". How mutch is it increased per Attack Power or how many Attack Powers is needed to get one extra damage?

Comment by Thottbot

My 33 druid has ~300 attk pwr in cat form... and w/ 5 points and a full energy bar... HITS mobs w/ bite for around 200-220 :(. It should be around 300 (from the extra energy, IE, excecute) then w/ more from attk pwr (unknown how much is actually added... if it's just 1/3, it'd still by another 100).

Btw, the mobs were the 30/31 centaurs in desolace... so dmg reduction would be like what... 10%? at most?

I can get 500 crits w/ it though :( so i dunno why the hits are hitting so weak most of the time.

Comment by Thottbot

Even if it doesn't do the damage it says it does it'll still be much nicer than a dot finishing move O_o. I only use rip against things like bosses because by the time i get 5 combo points they're about dead.

Comment by Thottbot

does ferocious bite miss a LOT? I love it, when it works.. but I have to click it twice in a row almost everytime before it works.

Comment by Thottbot

Great finisher,especialy against clothies.

Comment by Thottbot

Yea at level 38 I crit a 704 against a mage my level in pvp, must of surprised him so much because he stopped moving for a second and that gave me the chance to shred him and kill, this move is a wonderful finisher and good to use when people are lower then 35% of their health, if it doesn't actually kill then just go into caster and spam moonfire, that should do the trick.

Comment by Allakhazam

why do they wait till 32 to give us a skill that rouges have had since lvl 1.?

Comment by Allakhazam

... we are druids, not rogues.

Comment by Bogdanov89

Makes no sense that we get Rip at lvl20 and FBite at 32.

By the time you got 3+ combo points on a normal mob its near death, so Rip is absolutely useless for leveling.

Rogues start with Eviscerate and that makes sense... no clue why druids wait till 32 for FBite.

Links

Ferocious Bite

Ferocious Bite	Level 85

25 Energy	Melee Range

Instant

Finishing move that causes damage per combo point

Glyph of Ferocious Bite
and consumes up to 25 additional energy to increase damage by up to 100%, and heals you for 1% of your total maximum health for each 10 energy used

and consumes up to 25 additional energy to increase damage by up to 100%. Damage is increased by your attack power.
1 point : (0 + 36 * 1 * 1 + 0.125 * Attack power * 1)-(0 + 36 * 1 * 1 + 0.125 * Attack power * 1) damage
2 points: (0 + 36 * 2 * 1 + 0.250 * Attack power * 1)-(0 + 36 * 2 * 1 + 0.250 * Attack power * 1) damage
3 points: (0 + 36 * 3 * 1 + 0.375 * Attack power * 1)-(0 + 36 * 3 * 1 + 0.375 * Attack power * 1) damage
4 points: (0 + 36 * 4 * 1 + 0.500 * Attack power * 1)-(0 + 36 * 4 * 1 + 0.500 * Attack power * 1) damage
5 points: (0 + 36 * 5 * 1 + 0.625 * Attack power * 1)-(0 + 36 * 5 * 1 + 0.625 * Attack power * 1) damage

Spell Details

Duration

n/a

School

Physical

Mechanic

n/a

Dispel type

n/a

GCD category

Normal

Cost

25 Energy

Range

5 yards (Combat)

Cast time

Instant

Cooldown

n/a

GCD

1 second

Forms

Cat Form

Effect #1

School Damage (Physical)
Value: 14
PVP Multiplier: 1

Effect #2

Dummy
Value: 36
PVP Multiplier: 1
Server-side script

Effect #3

Dummy
Value: 26
PVP Multiplier: 1
Server-side script

Flags

Is Ability
Do Not Sheath
Initiates Combat (Enabled Auto-Attack)
Requires combo points on target
Discount Power On Miss
No Level Up Toast

Ferocious Bite

Buff

Spell Details

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