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Comment by 8528

If you are a rogue going the subtletry route hemorrhage (or hemo) is a must. With the low energy cost, and the ability to use it with any weapon, you can build up combo points fast while dealing decent damage. Isn't as much burst damage as it is steady constant damage.

PvE low reccomendation
PvP high reccomendation

Comment by 154400

Is it advisable to use a slow offhand weapon too?

Comment by 195355

Hemo bonus damage is affected by armor. Testing indicates hemo bonus damage is applied before crit, and lethality / backstab multipliers.

See: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html;jsessionid=1D620F14494A06F9B3BDA6159D53E743.app05_08?topicId=11471272&sid=1&pageNo=1

Outdated but still a good resource.

Comment by 293348

I have a couple of questions.

1) Does the debuff apply to DoTs, such as bleed effects?

2) Will the debuff be added onto subsequent hemorrhages?

Comment by 78038

Would this move replace Sinister strike? Such low energy cost and seems to do slightly more damage than Sinister Strike.

Comment by Archangel

This is a skill which completely changes a Rogues build. Once it is obtained, and assuming the Rogue is not Combat specced, Hemo becomes the main attack.

The idea behind a Hemo build utilizes it's light energy cost coupled with a high damage range weapon. Previously, it required a Sword, Axe, or Mace as it is normalized, lowering damage output with Dagger, but this has since changed. Fully upgraded, Hemo will only cost 30 Energy and deal about 75% the damage of Sinister Strike.

Why use this? Well, the damage is not really an issue. The biggest reason to use it as Sub is two-fold; firstly, it is a low energy attack which has good synergy with the slow energy regen of sub rogues, and secondly, it is a combo point generator for Sub. Sub has great combo point generation from Stealth, but into a fight it sucks. This tool help Sub rogues stay competitive IN the fight rather than just in the beginning.

Comment by 65831

1) Hemo
2) Mangle
3) FeralDrood DoTs
4) ?
5) Profit!
Isn't it?

Comment by 148007

Can someone explain to me - what is "bleed effects"? Is Garrote oder Rupture causes target to bleed?..

Comment by bflance

personally i use hemo only once in the beginning of the fight, and re-apply it once the debuff effect ended.
my main attack and combo generator is back stab.
I think that hemo is a great way to add some damage, when use with rupture and garrote in some pve encounters, but frankly only in some 5man dungeons bosses have enough hp to outlast the effects of those debuffs, and in raids u would go muttilate anyway and in pvp most rogues go ambush all the way.
but still, i think this is a nice way to do with heavy armored openents that simply mitigate too much of your nuke attacks and you want to benefit from dots.

Comment by 227695

Hemorrhage
H emo rrhage
H emo rage
emo rage

ofc its bleed dmg

Comment by 583111

Does anyone know if bleed effects that allready are on the target, will gain the benefit from this when it is applied? For example, IF i should choose to use Garrote as an opener, which has a bleed effect, will the dmg of tics increase after applying Hemorrhage? And will the dmg from tics from Rupture still be increased if this runs out before Rupture?

Comment by parazyte

Although you can use hemo with any weapon, please don't ever use it with a dagger =P

Totally wrong. It IS normalised. You SHOULD use it with a dagger even if it wasnt. +30% rupture dmg.

Comment by parazyte

I would beg to differ about both your statements:

If Hemo isnt on the target when you apply Garrote then the Garrote will see no benefit of slapping a Hemo on it afterwards.
If you apply Hemo and then slap a Rupture on it, when you refresh it with serrated blades it will be refreshed to its original state (Hemo buff taken into account) even if the Hemo effect has disappeared.

Comment by 397420

does anyone know
if the dmg of your hemo is increased with
a dagger in OH & sword in MH?
& + for subtle would it be best to go with
A) slow (Sword) MH & quick (dagger) OH
B) Slow (dagger) MH & quick (dagger) OH

Comment by 129192

Yes, another thing to consider is that poisons on PPM benefit from being applied to slower weapon which results in 34.39% higher chance to proc with a slow MH over a dagger, which might even out in auto-attacking,
BUT We're talking insanely cheap, spammable attack Hemorrhage

1.8 Speed - 64.29%
2.6 Speed - 92.86%

Comment by 892176

lol

"Buff"
Increases damage taken from bleed effects by 30%

More like a debuff...

Comment by Mormodes

If you are looking to track the glyph debuff (without Hemorrhage coming up instead) try using the spell id 89775

This is the link to the actual 24 second debuff: Hemorrhage

Blizzard gave both debuffs the same name, which make this difficult to track with addons such as Power Auras. I use TellMeWhen to track mine.

Comment by 66349

This following assaults from giant tentacles makes a certain amount of sense.

Comment by Thottbot

I really wanted this, I've heard it can make a big difference, but the spec I'm looking at will not allow me to place that many points in the Subt. line. Shame.

Comment by Thottbot

When it says "Deals damage to the opponent" it pretty much means it does the SS thats the rank for your lvl. it costs 10 energy less then SS and increases the targets damage taken by 3, 5 or 7 depending on rank, which isnt that good. but, if youre in a group or you get an expose armor on them it will increase thier damage taken by alot. i have it and i love it. i believe hemmorage is worth the talent points spent.

-Vwooshman lvl 47+ rogue on uldum

Comment by Thottbot

hemorrhage is by far better than SS if you are doing subtlety I spam it cause its instant cast instant cooldown and only costs 35 energy which means you can usually pop off 4 in a row and did we mention it fills up the ol combo points WAY faster than SS cause it COSTS LESS that means bigger EVISCERATES more often full kidney shots full slice and dice and more expose armors in groups

Comment by Thottbot

I have been looking at this talent for a while now and I am curious... Does the +7 damage (highest rank) simply add 7 more damage what you are attacking or is it like adding +7 damage to your weapon? If its just 7 added to the top of your SS or BS then its not worth it in my opinion, BUT... If its the same as adding 7 more base damage to something like my Perditions Blade and then the damage done is calculated after that then I would be saying wow! The difference is, lets just say I backstab for 1000 hps... adding 7 to that making it 1007 is kinda lame for a talent, but if they are gonna add 7 to the base damage of my weapon and then calculate the damage, factor in attack power, strength, ect., then I could see that 1000 damage backstab hitting for ALOT more than just 1007. Anyone have any clues as to just how this talent works? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.

Comment by Thottbot

So what Ur saying is that i should replace the SS with this on the action bar right..?

Comment by Thottbot

i am the cookie cutter pvp 21/8/22 build. i just looked at the new talent changes for the upcoming rogue patch.

on the new one i was testing on my template, you can get coldblood, ghostly strike, preparation and hemorrhage. i just have to decide on improved sap (for occasional pve) or setup (45% chance to add combo point after dodging).

seems like subtlety tree is the only thing improved. i've never gone deep in combat, so i wouldn't know.

Comment by Thottbot

Does anyone know if this stacks, if it does it would be killer :D

Comment by Thottbot

realmoninjaw/e ur a bit off..
want the calcs for the hemo dmg compared to ss dmg check wowwiki, hemo is good for slow weapons since it's not normalised. the +dmg adds to rupture/garrote as well..

I dont know of 1 other rogue than me who plays bleed rogue, cant understand why cause it rox, only lvl 65 but can beat almost anything in pvp, and in 5-10 man groups my dots are allowed to take up their debuff slots on the boss. Anywho hemo ads some dmg to every tick, and with my GM fist wep hemo does some nice crits n %^&* since it's very slow =)

anywho for more details om hemo mechanics check out wow wiki. =) laters

Comment by Thottbot

I'm guessing because it's a replacement for Sinister Strike, it favours slow, high max damage weapons also?

Comment by Thottbot

When you spec into sub you have basically 2 options. Go with daggers and backstab, set up your assassination tree so your better with those. Or you can go with a really slow MH weapon, which is great because there is no weapon requirement for Hemo - use a sword, mace, or fist with 2.6 speed or slower (it's harder to find slower than 2.6 in BC but it's possible) Also big Attack power helps with hemo, the higher the better. I remember an old test hemo vs. SS before BC and Hemo was only better with a 2.7 speed weapon and over 1250 attack power. Not really sure how strong SS rogues are now because of the Combat Potency talent in the combat tree, but if you are wanting to have imp sap and great survivability when soloing go with a hemo build. If your looking to do big Dps in a raid or non-cc type situation go combat.
Sub is all about pvp and Hemo is just an option for sub rogues to go with instead of daggers. I can't really say it's better over time because they Sub tree's strength goes down if it's not a quick fight, the dps goes down after 15-20 seconds into a fight and it's hard to keep up with a rogue with adreneline rush and blade flurry

Comment by Thottbot

the max rand for hemo is plus 10 damage +10 damage to my hits? if i wanted almost the same results i go get a 7 damage to weapons enchant somebody plz explain how this is worth anything?

Comment by Thottbot

It adds +3,+5,+7, or +10 (depending on rank) to each physical attack over the duration of 15 sec. or the 30 charges. Meaning that at the highest rank, a fully used up hemo on a mob will add an extra 300 dmg to the opponent. I agree its not very useful in that regard, but it also allows you to fill up 5 combo points VERY quickly. More quickly than SS. So if you're trying to pull off a lot of finishing moves, this is definately worth it.

Comment by Thottbot

hemo should never be used with daggers. always a slower main hand. Ask any descent rogue

Comment by Thottbot

Hemo spec is the absolutely best spec i've tried so far, 31/0/30, Warlocks go down with using only CloS and CB

Try hemo, play with hemo, love hemo

Cel, 70 rogue, Argent Dawn

Comment by Thottbot

One advantage of this is the fact that the debuff part causes damage that won't be attributed to your threat, like many "takes extra damage from xxx" spells (improved scorch is a good example). In fact, the tank will get a bonus from this and apart from the extra damage they will be dealing, if they're a druid or warrior, they will also be getting a little more rage.

Another 11 damage at level 30 is massive. It does 36 at level 70.

Comment by Thottbot

Link the Vedio plz I want to see it.

Comment by Thottbot

I dont bolive you. Link the Vedio plz

Comment by Allakhazam

you must put a talentpoint in Hemorrhage before you can train it..

Comment by Allakhazam

its a talent in the subtlety tree... you need to spend talent points in it to train it to rank 2

Comment by Allakhazam

This is a talent (At least rank 1 is).

Comment by Allakhazam

SO you just get this skill to put some low energy cost combo points on the target?

Comment by Allakhazam

you have to skill for it you can't learn lvl1 by an trainer ! have to use your tanlent ppoints to reach it

Comment by Allakhazam

Increases damage taken by 3? At lvl 58 the increased damage is 7.

Wow, 7 addtitional damage to a strike that does 100 dmg is like.. Wow! :S

Comment by Allakhazam

This skill can be stacked. If you hit an opponent a number of times the damage can soon mount up

Comment by Allakhazam

u two nabs gotta learn that its a TALENT;! u have to set TALENTS to get it!

Comment by Allakhazam

It is Call Hemmorage.
This is used for the build 21/3/27 (or 22/3/26)

anyways, this is used for Stunlock.
like more you can crit for up to 700 on a Hemmorage..
this is used to energy saving for stunlock and getting a nice crit Eviscerate(Evis).
Yes you lose some damage from Sinister strike but gain useful energy

This is by far best 1v1 build for rogue.

The SET UP! (the set up is the way of using this build)

There are many ways but this is most reccomended

1.CheapShot(CS)Hemmo Gouge KidneyShot(KS) Hemmorage
Gouge Vanish SB eviscerate (recall that your gouge will be lasting for 2 seconds at the end from the nerf we recently occured)

2.CS Hemmo Hemmo KS Hemmo gouge. Then you get behind target before gouge is up and Rupture (be sure to have IMPROVED RUPTURE) then get out of range and restealth. This is a good and real good for non healers... (healers you just basically keep at it)

TIPS!
1.Be sure to use crippling poisons on BOTH WEAPONS for this build.... especially for 2. (good to kill rogues warriors hunters)
2. hemmo after KS if you get that >.^ 25 energy regain from Relentless strikes.
3.It's always nice to have CB on. You don't need to.. but if you're stunlocking and doing Setup 1 then ya.... it's always nice :)
4.If you have any questions whisper me on Kil'Jaeden Quickasdeath. (60 troll rogue)

Comment by Allakhazam

Where do you train this. Now that I am almost 46 I see I can train rank 2 of this spell, but I dont see rank 1, and I need this for rank 2.

Is there a quest that you need to do to get rank 1? If so can anyone help me in finding it?

Edited, Wed Dec 8 19:44:21 2004

Comment by Allakhazam

Is this move worth the use of a point? It looks somewhat pathetic...

Links

Hemorrhage

Hemorrhage	Level 85

Talent

35 Energy	Melee Range

Instant

An instant strike that deals 155% weapon damage [(155 * 1.45)% if a dagger is equipped]

Glyph of Hemorrhage
opens a wound that deals an additional 40% of the direct strike's damage over 24 sec

and causes the target to take 30% additional damage from Bleed effects for 1 min. Awards 1 combo point.

Buff

Spell Details

Duration

1 minute

School

Physical

Mechanic

n/a

Dispel type

n/a

GCD category

Normal

Cost

35 Energy

Range

5 yards (Combat)

Cast time

Instant

Cooldown

n/a

GCD

1 second

Effect #1

Normalized Weapon Damage
Value: 1
PVP Multiplier: 1

Effect #2

Weapon Damage - %
Value: 98
PVP Multiplier: 1

Effect #3

Apply Aura: Mod Mechanic Damage % (Bleeding)
Value: 31%
PVP Multiplier: 1

Flags

Is Ability
Cannot be used while shapeshifted
Do Not Sheath
Aura is Debuff
Initiates Combat (Enabled Auto-Attack)
Discount Power On Miss
No Proc Equip Requirement
Requires main hand weapon
Not In Spellbook Until Learned

Hemorrhage

Buff

Spell Details

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